Date: Jun 8, 2005 7:35 AM
Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al
You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha lagna and atmakaraka.
Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our indoctrination and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right and wrong. It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are based on this indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon-manas) which is based on memory which agai is a function of selective retention (Jupiter) and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were. This emotion of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual and will vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha lagna is this illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka lagna).
Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and atmakaraka are in the same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the lagnesa and at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the society of influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the significator for this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society connected with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. Jupiter is a great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming from the learning that the society offers.
Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous knowlege - the knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This knowledge when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada throws up the *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva is - satyam shivam sundaram.
That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come together, the person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He challenges the teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let us examine some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the example, its my pleasure to continue the thread).
1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna and AL are not the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is reported widely. The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* caused by the Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32 years of age he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, the arudha lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he questioned the political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the atmakaraka Moon. He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to *RAMA RAJYA* through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu.
2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in Aries. This is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a dictum which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in Aries/Libra - native is abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama and Jiddu Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house. Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by Helena Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental custody between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological father). It finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy council and chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha lagna dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years old]. However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age as it is in Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father [Sun] in 1924 and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in Aries as AK. Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, Holland, Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was the complete and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental basis of the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a path to freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in India were a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn.
3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the arudha lagna and just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory that jyotisa should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga and (2) it should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one to break free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the Astrological Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned in Deva Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses in a yoga with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will teach the vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a foreign language. In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also the 8th lord and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma-karmadhipati yoga (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga).
The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) questionig process, there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning process and unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the questioning? Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning while causes shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state should be defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching this knowledge to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but did not bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we discussed above did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the cmbination of AK and AL to support the activity that is required after the questioning process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh situation accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right but then it must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by adding the terrible taste of the malefic planets.
Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and wonder why I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue doing it. [Aug 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons will Saturn give.
One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors outside the AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the Guru-shisya parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why did Gandhi take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with satyagraha in sexual control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say?
With best wishes and warm regards,
* * *
Sri Jagannath Center®
15B Gangaram Hospital Road
New Delhi 110060, India
* * *
Sanjayji was telling about his chara kaaraka replacement of Saturn
his Ak By his Jupiter, Jupiter takes some role of Atmakaaraka. Jupiter
is Lord of AL in Sg.
This happens around the time when he got fully involved in Jyotish
after quiting his highly placed Govt. Job (Indian Administrative Service).
Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa
Jupiter - AmK 26 Pi 07' 55.44" Reva 3 Pi Aq
Saturn (R) - AK 26 Cp 49' 40.71" Dhan 2 Cp Vi
Om Tat Sat
Illusion is not something that is just centric to the individual. It is an image and will be seen differently b different people based on their own perception of the image. The way you look at Bill Clinton shall be different than the way I see him or the way Hillary Clinton sees him, so it is centric from various view points. Yet it is an image and this image is a more than life figure as the President of the USA. This image is the arudha and he
rode this image for some time and then the nature of the arudha changed, yet the hangover of the arudha continues. It is more like a flavor that is based on retained memory. Now we all know (retained memory) that he was the president. He also knows this. What happens to one like President Reagan who loses the memory that he was President. What effect does this have on the arudha? Does it cause the arudha to change from (1) his perspective and (2) from the worlds perspective. So you see the arudha is important and the paka lagna is also very important. If the lagnesa does not like the arudha for some reason in the change in dasa due to anifestation of disease or an accident etc, then the memory of the arudha maybe wiped out. Here the AK comes into the picture and you will find the AK laying a role to do this job...or sometimes the GURU the Bhratrkaraka as the Guru has the power to memory. See Reagans chart.
In Reagans chart the AK Mercury is in lagna (intelligence) with Mars and aspected by Rahu...is this not a curse coming on the Mercury? Note that there are two charakaraka replacements involving (1) PiK and PK and (2) BK and MK. It was in the dasa of the AK which is also badhakesh and in the curse that the disease got really bad, especially after 1994 onwards. I think he finally died in Merc dasa Mars antardasa...planets in lagna.
Point again is did the arudha change? From his viewpoint [lagna/lagnesh] it did as he forget he was President, and even forgot the name of his wife etc...it must be very painful for the near and dear ones. But for the world [Moon] the arudha never changed.
Now try to do the chart of someone like Saint Joan who was burnt as a witch and then canonised as a saint. The arudha changed after death! How do we see this??? Interesting.
With best wishes and warm regards,
* * *
Sri Jagannath CenterR
15B Gangaram Hospital Road
New Delhi 110060, India
>> Respected Sanjayji,Bharatji& Ramnarayanji,
> First of all I want to thank you all for sharing your valuable
>thoughts on the placement of atmakaraka in AL.My atmakaraka is
>mercury and it is placed in scorpio with moon.Scorpio is the
>11th house from lagna and is also my AL.During the vimsottari
>dasa of mercury,I was doing my high school and college
>education I just wanted to be invisible in class, As Al shows
>the image, I always felt that all my near and dear had lot of
>expectations on me(eg : I used to get 70% marks in my subjects
>, while my teachers and parents used to think Iam an
>80%candidate) .Personally I know my candidature,I am very
>realistic but somehow society perceives me much more than
>what Iam.Somehow I feel this is due to the placement of
>atmakaraka in Al.Respected gurus you can always correct my conclusions.
>Thanking you all
Don't you think that if the atmakaraka is in the 12th from paka lagna, you are consciously under-estimating yourself. Being in scorpio the arudha will manifest as a secretive person and one is always trying to hide his abilities, and that is what you did! So was it the arudha or the atmakaraka manifesting? When the AK will manifest then you will be able to get over this hiding nature of scorpio arudha and realise that *there is nothing to hide* because Jagannath can see everything. The AK is a state of wisdom, of realisation and this is called the *self-realisation* and when you knw that real self there is nothing much left to know except that one who is beyond the self.
That is the opportunity given to those who have the arudha with the ak, the chance to look beyond the specs that this world puts on your eyes.
With best wishes and warm regards,
>From: bharateiya [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM
>Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al
>Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay
>Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are:
>1. Mahatma Gandhi
>2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi
>3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman
>There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna:
>1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya Sai
>Bada - 5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL
>Buddha AK 4. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK
>I have no references from classical text to show how this
>occurs. My logic is:
>Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of the
>seizing effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to
>the whole picture
>(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then
>misinterprets the whole picture by way of Arudha.
>Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us
>Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a conflict.
>Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in the mind.
>It will start the questioning process. The questioning process
>shall succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However,
>the march towards emotional maturity and understanding the
>limitedness of illusionary joys begins.
>If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this process
>can be faster.
>This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post
>their views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share it.
>Thanks and Regards
>--- In email@example.com, "Sanjay Rath"
>> Jaya Jagannatha
>> Dear Bharat
>> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the atmakaraka in
>> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or some such
>> activity? I shall be most grateful.
>> With best wishes and warm regards,
>> Sanjay Rath
>> * * *
>> Sri Jagannath CenterR
>> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
>> New Delhi 110060, India
>> * * *
>> bharateiya <bharateiya@y...> wrote:
>> Namaskaar Shree Aruna
>> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of oneself. In
>> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. The result
>> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person
>will have to
>> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will show the
>> person a great secret about life.
>> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the
>> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The native is
>> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily
>> of Maya within.
>> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others towards their
>> learning and solving life's matters.
>> I would love to hear other's comments on this very interesting topic.
>> Thanks and Regards
>> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "a_srimantula"
>> <a_srimantula@y...> wrote:
>> > Respected Gurus,
>> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in Arudhalagna?
>> > Thanking you all
>> > Aruna Srimantula